Are hitting hip rotation lower half loading drills, using the legs, good for beginning baseball or softball swing power and quick hands? My good friend Matt Nokes shines light on this hitting conundrum…
In this Matt Nokes post, I wanted to bust a MYTH that Homer Bush brought up in his interview last week, and that is the MYTH that rotating the back hip through the zone is necessary for power.
This past week, I re-tweeted this from @HyattCraig (who is awesome btw), of one of two Miguel Cabrera homers in a game, and this particular one he hit to CF:
Look at Miggy’s back foot step behind him. Also, he doesn’t get full rotation of his pelvis ? https://t.co/l11qIOLPnp
— Joey Myers (@hitperformlab) October 1, 2016
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The next day after that Tweet, I found this private message from a follower on Twitter:
“Joey, Honest question. I love most everything you post and It goes with all of the philosophies I teach as an instructor, but this particular post I don’t quite understand. Are you saying a backwards step of sorts and having limited pelvic rotation are positives? I don’t feel like this is practical for anyone that isn’t 6’3 225 when the pitcher is providing the power at 93. If you have time could you please clarify this for me?”
My response:
“Thanks for asking about that. A couple things, we do have to be careful about taking from big slugger analysis. I don’t mind what the back foot does as long as its un-weighting AND not skipping forward too much. Miggy has a great line following the batted ball, it has to do with optimizing centrifugal (center-fleeing) forces. As an example, the belly button should point where the batted ball has exited. Coach Matt Nokes talks quite a bit about full rotation not being an absolute to hitting.”
Which brings me to the above video, where Coach Matt Nokes walks us through numerous examples of elite hitters not fully rotating their back foot (and pelvis) until after impact. Also, let me define full rotation of the pelvis (or hips as some refer to it as), at least from what I see/hear/watch from other people out there…
Full pelvic rotation is getting the hitter’s belly button to face shortstop (for a righty, or 2B for lefty) on any pitch…inside, middle, and outside. I’ve found this gospel preached from those who don’t ‘buy into’ or understand the loading of springy fascia in the torso, since to them, the shoulders would be seen as ‘inactive’, before the hitter starts turning.
Therefore the pelvis has to do all the heavy lifting. This method is far from optimal, and NOT very safe for the lower backs of youth hitters across the nation, and even more disturbing will continue to keep Orthopedic surgeons in business.
CLICK HERE for a post I did explaining how the swing isn’t rotational OR linear, but that’s it’s actually linear, rotational, then linear again. The purpose of this post, is to open up discussion about whether rotating the back hip through the zone is necessary for power IS or IS NOT a myth…
Lastly,
I wanted to share one of my favorite Coach Matt Nokes drills for practicing what he preaches. It’s his “Around the Zone” soft toss (coaches please be careful with this):
What say you…?
Sounds like a great time for one of your famous Zepp tests. How about testing bat speed when you rotate your hips through the swing and do not rotate your hips fully. I always teach max bat speed and therefore max ball exit speed.
I absolutely believe in your catapult loading system and a full hip rotation, so I do not think you have to favor one or the other. On an outside pitch a full hip rotation might mean having your belly button to the second baseman for a righty. A lot of it depends on pitch location and timing.
If you are late on an inside fastball you are going to do what you can to barrel up and that might mean rushing your upper body through before you get a full hip rotation to catch up with that pitch. But if that is routinely the case you need to start your swing sooner, not limit your hip rotation on all of your swings.
Joe,
Even though the back foot is sideways, we still see it skip…sometimes forward, sometimes away from home plate, sometimes toward home plate, and sometimes it stays in place but they get up on the toe. Go onto MLB.com and sort their 2016 stats by BA: http://gohpl.com/2da4cfY
Then go onto YouTube and look at the hitters with more than 20 homers (my assumption is the ones below 20 will be keeping the back foot sideways as well), and search “[player’s name] 2016 highlights”, and watch that back foot stay sideways. And it really doesn’t matter if the hitter pulls the ball, goes up the middle, or oppo, the back foot stays sideways until follow through and finish. Miguel Cabrera, Nelson Cruz, Jose Altuve, Dustin Pedroia, Votto, Mookie Betts, Big Papi, Andrew McCutchen, Hank Aaron, Ted Williams…they all do it.
Watch the back foot of your favorite, The Mick, hitting his 500th homer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Orw6YsDn2o
I had a good phone conversation with Homer Bush the other day and his hypothesis is by keeping the back foot sideways, it helps the hitter maintain barrel on the plane of the pitch, and a gold nugget detail contributing to hitting .300.
I have to admit i have been a hips guy forever. I am only now changing my mind. Or actually i’m gaining a better understanding of what the hips actually do.
And it started with me noticing that some hitters who rotated less, but had better connection with the ground, hit the ball much harder. I attributed it to a better and more solid base (the cannon shooting in a canoe metaphor). And it may be that because the reduced rotation allows for better ground connection.
Right now i am a believer that the torso twist, springy force, must lead the way and the hip rotation and lower half power happens second and adds power via mass/inertia.
If one leads with hips first they are fully open before contact when they should actually open during contact.
Joey,
Mantle has a slightly closed stance on his 50th HR. He is also striding into the plate. He hooked that HR into the short porch in right field. Can a hitter get his back foot up or skip it if he strides into the plate and block his front hip from opening? Not sold on this approach, though it’s done, especially by Miguel Cabrera, in going to right center.
I guess it has a lot to do with vectors, the new frontier with me since I avoided calculus in high school at all costs.
Jeff,
I guess Ted Williams is to blame for “the hips lead the way” maxim from THE SCIENCE OF HITTING. However, Ted didn’t lead with his hips. He had a “counter movement,” his term, or a “counter rotational” movement coined by his protégé, Mike Epstein. If you check out his swing, you will see a down-and-in movement of the front shoulder, engaging his X-patterned fascia and core muscles before the hips go into action.
Check out his slow motion swing on Youtube. I’m on my phone and can’t copy the link.
Joe
Jon,
You’re absolutely correct, a Zepp experiment on this is coming. Please see my first reply to Joe above. It’s uncanny to see the majority of top 20-25 hitters, based on BA (and hit over 20 homers in 2016), in the Big Leagues to have a sideways back foot regardless of pitch location. Some may be more sideways than others on outside pitches, but sideways nonetheless.
I just thought it’s an interesting observation, and that’s why the post 🙂
Jeff, totally…and like you have thought the back hip must get through on ALL pitches, but you can’t deny what’s happening to that back foot (and hip) on video with the best most elite hitters. From Miggy to Altuve. Teaching otherwise, and I fear we’re not giving our hitters their best chance of succeeding.
What’s crazy Joe, is that crashing the plate (slightly) with the stride foot is part of the solution, not the problem. A good friend of mine I’ve mentioned in past posts, Lee Comeaux, who instructs pro golfers from around the world, has studied the Thomas Myers Anatomy Trains stuff longer than I have…and he says the body’s fascia gets optimized when the feet are moving on different planes not squared up, so front foot moving in towards the plate, while back foot slides away.
As a good example,
Check out this video of Hank Aaron (pay particular attention to the umpire’s view clip):
Interesting…
Joe
Joey and Matt,
In all due respect, and it is not my intention to be contrary because I respect the work that both of you do, I think that there are a few variables that Matt failed to take into account. Lombardozzi and Rose would not be considered power hitters per se; Sosa, Braun, Ripken, and Brett were all striding into the plate, which would not only restrict their hip rotation but also the movement, or lack of movement, of their back foot; Williams was trying to pull an outside pitch in that clip and topping the ball; Pujols was lunging in those clips, which would restrict the movement of his back foot; Piazza, a self-admitted “pitching machine hitter,” was more of an upper half hitter who didn’t efficiently utilize his lower half; finally, Jones was repositioning (“skipping his back foot,” Joey’s jargon) efficiently.
I think you have to consider the distance between the hitter’s feet after striding, at least the hitters you showed in your clip. The wider the feet, the more likely a hitter would/should skip their back foot. I think that, in addition to the direction of the stride, in this case with the hitters shown, striding towards the plate would dictate the action of the back foot. As a hitter’s center of mass shifts forward, so too must his back side.
Just a thought. Your comments are welcome.
Joe