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Baseball Pitching Training Interview: Top Two Mistakes That Coaches Are Making in Baseball Pitching Training?



Podcast interview with Mike Gillen.  Private pitching velocity training and accuracy development program baseball coaching lessons for youth and beginners in Fresno, CA.  We chat about baseball pitching drills, equipment, and balance in this interview.

Here’s what we cover in this baseball pitching training interview with my pitching coach Michael Gillen from (about 29-minute read time)

  • Give us a little look at your baseball pitching training setup over there…Baseball Pitching Training
  • Who you are, the kind of your mentors on the pitching side, who guides you and your training?
  • Top two mistakes that either pitchers or coaches are making in teaching pitching?
  • What do you feel with the whole Tommy John stuff? What do you feel like the top two issues that are leading to that?
  • When reading about spinal engine springy fascia, were you were able to apply those principles to pitching?
  • What are those two baseball pitching training things that you go, alright, we need to fix those right away?
  • Like hitting, is there such thing as over-rotating when pitching?
  • Tell people where your website is, your social media, any kind of deals or what kind of deals that you do, obviously, locally, right? But are you doing some online lessons? Let people know that kind of stuff.

As usual, I’ve transcribed the baseball pitching training interview for your convenience with handy-dandy little video timestamps.  Enjoy the conversation with my favorite pitching coach, Mike Gillen, as we discuss baseball pitching training…

Joey Myers  00:06

Hello and welcome to Swing Smarter Monthly Newsletter. This is your host Joey Myers from and I have the honor today to bring my peanut butter and jelly counterpart, Mike Gillen.

Joey Myers  00:18

So first, I want to welcome you to the show. Welcome to the show, Señor

Mike Gillen  00:23

The man-dinga himself. Thanks for having me, Joey. This is awesome.

Joey Myers  00:27

You got it.

Mike Gillen  00:28

I’m the one that has the honor here.

Joey Myers  00:30

The reason I say peanut butter and jelly, to give those out there that are listening to this context, this is my pitching guy, my local baseball pitching training guy. It just so happens that we’ve known each other since the fourth grade and played baseball together forever.

Joey Myers  00:45

Coach Mike or coach Gilligan or coach Gillen, many of the names that we talked about. He played at Fresno City College for a couple years transferred to San Diego State and pitched out there with Coach Tony Gwynn when he was still around.

Joey Myers  01:01

I wanted to have this pirate garb because Mike and I have so many inside jokes. I don’t know if we have a pirate inside joke, but there’s always these shenanigans that are going on.

Mike Gillen  01:11

It’s non-stop. Always, 100% of the time.

Joey Myers  01:17

I’ll take this off real quick. There we go.

Mike Gillen  01:20

I didn’t even recognize you.

Joey Myers  01:23

It’s Clark Kent and it’s Superman. You see how that works? So, let’s start off with a softball question. Pardon the pun or pun intended. Tell us a little bit about what you got. Maybe give us a little look at your setup over there.


Give us a little look at your baseball pitching training setup over there…

Mike Gillen  01:42

Okay, I can give you a tour, a soft tour. Let’s see. Moving around this way.

Joey Myers  01:48

Show me your number one baseball pitching training fans.

Mike Gillen  01:50

It’s humble beginnings. This is it. I’m going finish that cement here in the next couple of weeks. Make a little more inviting to everyone. What’s that over there?

Joey Myers  02:07

Look at that sign, hitting performance lab? That’s cool.

Mike Gillen  02:09

Right? He sponsors us. You got Charlie right here. He’s a mainstay. I tell the pitchers to say sorry before they start their pen. That way there’s no misunderstandings later. This is it for now.

Mike Gillen  02:31

You’re catching me right in a reconstruction, this middle part of that mount. I’m going to have to rip that out of there and I’m going dual mounds and we’re going to start doing doubles here soon.

Joey Myers  02:41

Oh, cool. There you go

Mike Gillen  02:43

Two target and I got a mat there, mat there. We’re going to get that going. Well, the idea and this is not as hard to see, but if you look back there, there’s going to be a metal building put back there at some point.

Mike Gillen  02:54

I’m still not sure if I want to plug that in or not, it’s going to be costly. Once it’s up, it’s like I’m going to be married to it so I’m not sure what’s going to happen there. If I do then I’ve got a place to put my tractors

Joey Myers  03:09

Just get one of those baseball pitching training kids of yours to get on a bike like a hamster and you just power it themselves.

Mike Gillen  03:17

Exactly. Hey, I got some dads that will probably be okay with that.

Joey Myers  03:22

Or just have like have the bike riding to power the shed, have that be one of your stations for your pitchers, when you have a group of four pitchers, have one of them over there with the legs out, have a small for them.

Joey Myers  03:35

Their legs are like this, when they’re riding it like this, and then power for the other pitchers. I love it.

Joey Myers  03:47

Obviously, this is a hitting blog, but baseball pitching training is a part of baseball and softball too. Get people out there who do really research the pitching side and give them little background on who you are, the kind of your mentors on the pitching side, who guides you and your training?


Who you are, the kind of your mentors on the pitching side, who guides you and your baseball pitching training?

Mike Gillen  04:03

It was probably just three big names. Do you remember Fred? Not a whole lot of people are going to know. I got with him in college, and he really helped instill confidence and he was tough and gritty, that old school coach so I owe a lot of credit to him just from my kind of my beginnings on how it was to pitch correctly.

Mike Gillen  04:36

Even it was very generalized but learning how to push off at the right time. How to have your mentality out there and like I said that toughness that you need, you don’t back down from anyone and I got a lot of the mental side from him.

Mike Gillen  04:52

But more recently, I guess in the last 10 years kind of on my road to finding out the answers and just making sure I was doing it correctly, because everyone kept asking, hey, you know, I heard you get good pitching lessons, and that just kind of snowballed.

Mike Gillen  05:09

I wanted to make sure that I was doing things right. So, for me, the beginning of all is ASMI- American Sports Medicine Institute with Dr. Glenn Fleisig. I would look that name up.

Mike Gillen  05:21

Of course, Tom House, and Brent Pourciau, Those are three big names. If you all just look those names up and start doing your own research and looking at what their backgrounds, where they came from, and go from there. That’s kind of where I went.

Mike Gillen  05:41

Tom House taught me when I was back at San Diego State. That just opened Pandora’s box. I was a little frustrated at the time because it took me till I think what we lose 22 to 23-ish.

Mike Gillen  05:55

I was learning how to pitch or learning the movements of it and the proper way, the way the big leaguers do, it was like a secret up till then. Just the sequence of it all.

Mike Gillen  06:11

Back in the day, and there were some good things taught, but there was no rhyme or reason to it really. It was scattered. I learned how to segment it and how to put it in proper order from Tom House and like I said, just built from there.

Joey Myers  06:29

When we were 22-23, the internet was just getting started. This is early 2000s. The information wasn’t out there as ready as it is now. I think YouTube maybe was just getting going. I don’t even know if it was getting going yet.

Joey Myers  06:43

I know Twitter came on the scene about 2007. We didn’t have Twitter. We had Facebook, I think MySpace was still a thing.

Mike Gillen  06:58

I’m still on my space, I’m going strong.

Joey Myers  07:00

Is that still around?

Mike Gillen  07:04

It’s funny, you brought it up. For what reason, my wife and I were talking about that and about my space and the cool features it had and how Facebook didn’t have that, and it took me a while to get used to it.

Mike Gillen  07:16

We were wondering, Is that still around? Just no one uses it. Or is it shut off? Do you have access to it? It was all just beginning when we were kind of toward the end of our baseball lives and in slow motion captures.

Mike Gillen  07:36

The cool thing about ASMI was they’ve done hundreds and hundreds of captures, thousands. But they did 10 Cy Young Award winners and quantified their movements and went okay, this is how the best do it.

Mike Gillen  07:52

Guys like me came around and figured that out. Now we’re able to segment things and work it in a certain order. I think that’s really the secret to it all is how do you do or where do you start?

Mike Gillen  08:07

For me, I start backwards in the delivery. It’ll start at the end, and figure that out, and then we work our way to when you lift your leg up. That was a big one from Tom house. Top velocity, those guys, I figured out how to work it backwards. But yes, they didn’t have any of that stuff back then.

Joey Myers  08:28

Now what would you say today, in today’s game, what’s the top two things that you see, whether it’s coaches or pitchers, on whether social media is where you’re seeing it, the top two mistakes that either pitchers or coaches are making in teaching baseball pitching training?


Top two mistakes that either pitchers or coaches are making in baseball pitching training?

Mike Gillen  08:48

If anyone’s teaching a balanced point, that would probably be the worst teach you can make. I think the other one would probably be the next step in how to load, load your back leg.

Mike Gillen  09:03

I see a lot of up and down movements going on.  I think you can go up down, a little bit, some times where I do that, but it’s not very much, I just do it a little just to get a feel of what is it like to put pressure and a load into your back leg. But it’s not something I do a lot of.

Mike Gillen  09:24

I think balance point though, like big league ball was teaching that back in the 80s and 90s, they were teaching their pitchers that for whatever reason, because if you look before that there wasn’t a lot of balance points with guys like Sandy Koufax and there was no stopping in their movements.

Mike Gillen  09:46

You’re seeing that a lot more now, it was like we had this gap where there wasn’t any and then they teach in balance points. That’s where you and I come in is that’s what they were teaching us in high school.

Mike Gillen  09:57

Maybe some guys it worked for them in some way, but it destroyed me. I needed the momentum, and I didn’t know how to do that, I had no idea. One of the biggest flaws in a pitcher is the front leg when they land, there’s no stability there. They hit the ground and their knee moves around either side, or at least more toward the catcher.

Mike Gillen  10:22

They’re losing accuracy and velocity there, but as far as teacher goes, if they’re being taught that not all coaches teach that, but I think that some coaches need to break out of that and not try to stop teaching that balance point stuff. It’s really destroying a lot of kids.

Joey Myers  10:39

I know what you’re saying too. When it comes to teaching baseball pitching training, and with the sequence and all that, using cues, like in hitting four or five years ago, I would have hated the swing down cue absolutely hated it, because it was being taught like you’re saying probably like the balance point thing and pitching.

Joey Myers  10:55

The swing down is what I was taught in high school and college, swing down and through.

Joey Myers  11:00

Now, I come to find out, the swing down part is effective, but only middle in, middle up pitches. Middle away, middle down, is probably the worst cue you can use to tell the hitter to swing down.

Joey Myers  11:12

Now, are there certain scenarios with the pitcher that you would tell them to balance like if they’re horrible with balance? Or wouldn’t be a scenario on that?

Mike Gillen  11:23

There is. I hate the word balance point, it is frustrating. Stop at a point, that means you’re stopping. If you’re teaching just the leg lift in and of itself, you can kind of teach that, but there’s never an effort to do the full movement.

Mike Gillen  11:49

When I let a kid do his full throw, there’s never any talk about stopping yourself or gathering in a point where you’re stopping and coming to that point. I broke it down in four stages.

Mike Gillen  12:06

There’s the finish, there’s two middle portions, and then beginning where you’re lifting your leg up. I teach a lot of momentum there and a lot of movement there. I try to make it towards as little as possible.

Mike Gillen  12:20

When you have to time and when you’re breaking your hands to throw, you’re up, and you can’t see this, but I’m picking my knee up in your leg lift. Then you can go down and you break your hands while your knee goes down, then you bring it back up. Their leg lift foot never touches the ground.

Mike Gillen  12:41

In a way, that’s very minimal, I just get them to go, hey, this is how you time that and you time your hands with your front leg or your lift leg. You do that a couple times. And then Okay, now that you understand that let’s move around a little bit now.

Mike Gillen  12:56

I break past that. It’s an initial teach that I give them. I’ll literally tell kids, okay, don’t ever do that, again. Don’t sit there for 20 minutes of your day or 10 minutes and working on just staying in one place with it. If you want to do it a couple times, fine. But then let’s start shifting our weight into that movement.

Joey Myers  13:17

What do you feel with the whole Tommy John stuff? What do you feel like the top two issues that are leading to that?


What do you feel with the whole Tommy John stuff? What do you feel like the top two issues that are leading to that?

Joey Myers  13:27

Because it’s exploding. It’s getting down to 12-year-old’s, it’s there.

Mike Gillen  13:38

Well, fatigue is number one, overthrowing kids and doing that too much. I think the general answer would be fatigue and bad mechanics. But what are bad mechanics? The less hip and shoulder separation you have, I think a lot of people know this by now and that’s something that was coined by Tom House. I guess he discovered it and brought to light.

Mike Gillen  14:03

The less separation you have of your hips going to home plate and your shoulder staying back. Now the more you can get into injury patterns. It’s basically arm dragging, hyper-angulation of the shoulder.

Mike Gillen  14:16

When you go to throw it because you didn’t get your hips through, then you must create this drag across and you get into that drag. That’s the number one reason for Tommy John, outside of fatigue, overall fatigue, like I said overdoing it.

Joey Myers  14:33

Yes, and it’s crazy that it’s getting earlier and earlier. We didn’t have to think about that kind of stuff then.

Mike Gillen  14:41

It goes into the fatigue part. I really think there’s too much travel ball. We played spring summer and then we were done. We were sad for a week, and we got over it, we played football or basketball or something else.

Mike Gillen  14:57

If you interview or talk to any big leaguer, they’ll tell you Hey, you need to play other sports? You can’t be baseball all the time. It’s that fatigue factor, I always tell parents and kids, look hey it’s November 1st, and there’s a runner on second.

Mike Gillen  15:11

You got to make this pitch again and you’re in a stress, you’re in a stressful throw. We got to remove the stress a little bit. Go work out, lift, get bigger, get stronger, go play another sport. That feeds into that fatigue thing.

Mike Gillen  15:28

That mechanical kind of dragging your arm. That’s what I was doing. What the balance point, I couldn’t really get moving. Well, they were teaching pull the glove, I should have told you that one pulls the glove and created this drag on me. After years and years, and this arm didn’t want to do it anymore.

Joey Myers  15:49

Remember when I was during my changing over from online or the one on ones to the groups, and my group started to grow. I was like, hey, Coach Gillen, can you come in and I need to train somebody to take over some of my hitters.

Joey Myers  16:03

I went to my pitching guy to help with my hitters. Right? It ended up working out and I ended up finding a hitter, a younger hitter, who I’d worked with for a while, and he came on as my hitting apprentice, and then you got busy with your pitching stuff.

Joey Myers  16:17

But you came out and you observed, you even read my book, the Catapult Loading System. Were there some changes in there? Reading about spinal engine springy fascia that you were able to apply to pitching?


When reading about spinal engine springy fascia, were you were able to apply those principles to pitching?

Mike Gillen  16:30

Yes, I do that. Closing the shoulders off and getting that preload of everything. Hearing words like springy fascia, I didn’t know what that was. I used to say, hey, let your arm lay back, and I didn’t know at the time that was that’s external rotation, internal. Thinking of it like that.

Mike Gillen  17:00

I’ll even ask them, if it’s your one of your students, hey did Joey show you that thing where you put your hand on the table, or on your leg and you do that, and then you try harder, and then you combine them? That one was great. I love that analogy.

Mike Gillen  17:19

Just closing off more. I mean, I knew to do that, but I didn’t really know the benefits as much to it, or to do it more, or maybe even exaggerated just to get a feel for what it’s like, but yeah, you’re trying to stay close as long as possible and then let’s work our feet, work our hips through and you’re trying to create as much separation as you can.

Mike Gillen  17:40

I read it a lot more a lot sooner. I remember you telling me that about don’t wait so long to show them that because I start with where they’re squared up. If your home plate the cameras on plate, they’re in movements where they’re always going forward.

Mike Gillen  17:55

I start teaching them how to close off more after that. You probably put the cherry on top when it came to how to close off and how that works, I guess springy fascia and how you can create tension in the body.

Joey Myers  18:12

If you look at the pitchers in the past, you mentioned Sandy Koufax and we can say, Nolan Ryan. We talk about now is back then it was showing numbers right, hitter showing their numbers to the pitcher type of thing. We’ve evolved that to neck pressure, I think maybe I’ve talked about that.

Joey Myers  18:31

With the hitter, we’re trying to create neck pressure. Where the head anchors in a tracking position, right, we’re trying to track the balls is the most important thing that a hitter needs to do.

Joey Myers  18:41

The head doesn’t move, it doesn’t allow the shoulder to pull the head off.  It’s the shoulder that pulls underneath and goes as far as it can go until it can’t go anymore because the heads keeping it from going. If you look at the pitchers, I know you’re a lefty but I’m going from my right side, is the same kind of thing, right?

Joey Myers  18:58

You see these pitchers in this kind of position, where there might be a slight tilt this way, and then the shoulders coming underneath. They’re creating pressure the same as a hitter would create as they’re going here and then start to unwind and go, so it’s the same thing. It’s just one person’s throwing a ball and the others swinging the bat.

Mike Gillen  19:19

Just getting kids used to that because it’s uncomfortable at first. I think a lot of the injury can be just as something as simple as that or something. You think it’s little but a kid, when he goes to throw, some naturally do it, but they don’t want to create that, that’s uncomfortable, and they’re just okay I just want to throw it, I just want to get my home plate.

Mike Gillen  19:46

If they can’t see it, they must get their eyes there. Here go their shoulders and they’re early. So just getting them in a stance and getting them to close off and feel that neck pressure and getting into there. I’ll just have them sit there for five minutes and feel what that’s like. That’s pretty much all I do, is just get kids to feel what positions are like.

Joey Myers  20:10

I love that. Now this can be a little bit different than the mistakes you see out there. But picture you got a kid coming in, say like Gino, first time pitcher that comes in to see you. What are those couple things that you see like over and over and over, that they’re doing?

Joey Myers  20:27

Maybe they haven’t been taught at all or anything? Maybe they’re natural? What are those two things that you go, alright, we need to fix those right away? Is it different than the balance thing and landing thing? Or is it the same?

What are those two things that you go, alright, we need to fix those right away?

Mike Gillen  20:44

I don’t get into the balance stuff or the leg lifts, it depends on the kid and how quick he picks everything else up. It could be a couple of weeks, or a couple sessions where we don’t even lift a leg up. We don’t even get on a mound.

Joey Myers  21:04

Do you remember what you worked with Gino on first?

Mike Gillen  21:07

It was the forward movements; there’s so many coaches literally think that pitching is a rotational action. A lot of it is, sure. But there’s sagittal movements, it works on three planes.

Mike Gillen  21:23

I get them to figure that out just because I think there’s that universal throwing package that every team puts together, and they put them on a knee and make them finish over their knee and their leg and they’re making them rotate when there’s not enough speed and momentum to rotate like that. Why are you teaching them to do that? That’s my opinion.

Mike Gillen  21:45

It’s all about going forward. It’s arm action going forward, and then trunk going forward. We figure that out because everything is taught to spin, I feel. There’s obviously coaches that do it right, there’s really a lot of good ones out there. But I feel like there’s so much rotation in the throw that no one teaches any forward movements.

Mike Gillen  22:07

At the big-league level, pro level, and even college, some high school, there’s a lot of good forward movement into that throw, and then you see rotation, whereas kids cut that forward movement off and just spin and then you get into that drag.

Mike Gillen  22:22

I would say cutting the ball on accident, meaning their hand is turning as they’re throwing it, and they’re creating that cut and the ball. That’s usually what I hit first, how do you go over your front foot? You hear it all the time they follow through, reach out in front?

Mike Gillen  22:40

I don’t see a lot, there’s not a kid that’s coming here that went Oh, yeah, I’ve done that before. None. I like to be the first one to teach him.

Joey Myers  22:51

It’s interesting, you say that the rotation, right? Because I agree with you, I think both pitching and hitting, there’s a little bit of all that in there. You mentioned three planes of motion.

Joey Myers  23:01

All three planes are engaged in a dynamic pitching delivery or a swing. One of the things I’ve been really tuned into the last couple months, the last couple of years beginning to COVID I think January 2020, January, February, it’s been over a year and a half now, is over rotation to the swing.

Joey Myers  23:21

There was this one thing, I just couldn’t figure out what the hell was going on, I’d see these hitters come in, and we call it racing back elbow at the time, where they’re swinging and their elbows come and pass their belly button, and everything’s completely sideways before their barrel even gets to the ball. I was like, What the hell’s going on?

Joey Myers  23:37

I looked at some research, and I found they’re over rotating. They’re getting their chest all the way squared and their barrels back here hitting the ball. It’s like you talking about the arm, right? Talking about where they’re getting here in the arms being way back here, all that pressure on the elbow and the shoulder and the whole thing, right?

Joey Myers  23:58

Over rotation of the swing, but all these coaches, these younger coaches are all you know, flip that foot back foot over and get your hips through the ball, and all this rotation, yes, that happens to a degree in the swing, but we never teach really, any rotation of the lower half.

Joey Myers  24:18

We don’t, we just expect it to happen, and it happens. We focus on like you said, preloading the upper half, and then the lower half will do its job but to say rotate, rotate all the time. It’s a problem in hitting too, just like in baseball pitching training.


Like hitting, is there such thing as over-rotating when pitching?

Mike Gillen  24:35

I agree. This is the biggest overstatement. It’s 2021, we break past. Back in the day, it’s 1972 we’ve got all the advancements we need; it just keeps going like that and soon it’s Hey, it’s 2055, we need to get it together.

Mike Gillen  25:01

There’s too much information now, it’s all out there. Back in 1993, there were no slow-motion cameras, there was nothing breaking this down. There was nothing Hey, do you see how your knees internal too early, there was nothing. But now there is.

Mike Gillen  25:19

I don’t want this to be a hating on coach’s thing, but I’ll ask kids and there’s never any video analysis done ever like I never hear about that maybe it’s the first time you’ve been recorded and you look at your video and they’ve never seen it, high school kids, the high school coaches, there’s got to be some that do it. But I don’t think there are I mean, I’ve gone as far as telling kids, hey, can you sneak your phone in there and have your buddy take a little video of you.

Mike Gillen  25:49

That way you can break it down and look at it and see where your flaws are, see if you’re doing a good job or not. They were too locked into this old school mentality. We got to get out of it, blending of both.

Joey Myers  26:06

Exactly, you need gut. You can’t just have a data thing, or you can’t have just had a gut thing. You got to use both. You got to use the tech detect, the data and in the gut feeling stuff. It must be all of it.

Joey Myers  26:20

We can talk and go deep into some of these baseball pitching training things.

Mike Gillen  26:26

Let’s extend it.

Joey Myers  26:28

I’d love to, we just got to transcribe it. My virtual assistant would be a little upset if I gave her an hour transcription she had to get done in a day. But hey, I wanted to give you a chance to promote what you’re doing.

Joey Myers  26:40

Tell us a little bit about where to find you, where to find your website. Your website looks good, by the way. Tell people where your website is, your social media, any kind of deals or what kind of deals that you do, obviously, locally, right? But are you doing some online lessons? Let people know that kind of stuff.


Tell people where your website is, your social media, any kind of deals or what kind of deals that you do, obviously, locally, right? But are you doing some online lessons? Let people know that kind of stuff.

Mike Gillen  27:00

I’m still trying to get the online stuff off the ground. You can reach me on Facebook. I’m on Instagram, but it’s not really active but you can go to

Joey Myers  27:19

There it is right there.

Mike Gillen  27:21

Let me see. It’s not backwards.

Joey Myers  27:23

No, you’re good. You’re good. I’ll put all that into the show notes, so people have that.

Mike Gillen  27:39

Those are the best ways to contact me. A lot of this is generated off word of mouth. People are doing it that way. Obviously, that may not help everyone in what we’re trying to do right now.

Mike Gillen  27:52

I’m on Facebook, Instagram. I do have Twitter and Instagram; I need to get better at those. I don’t ever use them.

Mike Gillen  28:01

On Facebook, I’ll just put before and after videos of kids and show where they were and where they are. I do like the online stuff. Speaking of dinosaurs. I need to get better at that and get reach more people.

Mike Gillen  28:23

I’ll tell you this, it’s tough because I’m fully loaded here. I need to get an apprentice myself and make another carbon copy of me so I can move more kids through.

Joey Myers  28:35

Yes, sir. You need to, again, just grab one of your pitchers who’ve been with you for a while, is older. You know mine. He’s a senior, is going to graduate this year from high school. I’ve had him since he was 10 or 11. Nicky Frye.

Joey Myers  28:47

He’s my head and apprentice. I sent all the younger one. Any of them that are 11 years old or older, I’ll take in any ones that are below that I’ll send to him. It helps a lot. I mean, at some point, obviously you’re going to get pretty bloated with the 11 and ups and all that, but it’s good that you got your building the second part of your baseball pitching training bullpen, so you’re going to have two bullpens pitchers can throw.

Joey Myers  29:11

That gives you two people you could do, obviously the biggest thing would be to get four in a baseball pitching training group. If you can find two other stations or whatever to do that, but you know me, I’ve been trying to get you to do small private group for a long time, but you kind of painted yourself into a corner because you accept payment upfront for like 20 lessons.

Joey Myers  29:29

You got to wait for those 20, do those one-on-one lessons and you kind of painted yourself into a corner but I see you’re starting to make moves to try and get into more of the group because how many pitchers are you working with right now?

Mike Gillen  29:44

I want to say probably 40.

Joey Myers  29:47

You’re giving that halt sign, I’m coming around second base, I’m lumbering towards third and I’m trying to send you more pitchers and you’re doing this, you’re giving me this sign right here. Hey, I got one out. There’s only one out, I can roll the dice and try and go headfirst into third. Come on.

Mike Gillen  30:10

I’m creating this. My waitlist is a mile long. It’s sad, injury out there and there’s so many problems with these kids as far as how they’re moving, and I can’t get to all of them. That’s why I finally put my foot down, I finally looked, and you saw the facility, it’s geared toward one kid, you got that mound in the middle and that’s really killing it.

Mike Gillen  30:40

I got to take that out, put two more in, I’m getting two made right now. Once I get that, then at that point, I could probably bring in two more and do maybe some camp style stuff on like a Saturday and get more kids in.

Mike Gillen  30:56

Like you said do stations, do like a dry run station with one or with two other stations and then two others are throwing and then swap them out? Like every 15 minutes.

Joey Myers  31:06

I hope that this interview, it’s going to go probably decent well and go down with some people. Hopefully it’ll bring you another 50 people, 50 pitchers, if you imagine another 50 pitchers coming in and knocking on your door?

Mike Gillen  31:19

Right. I do have that Saturday; I finally cleared a Saturday open. it’s mostly open for family and I’m able to not do a pitching lesson one day out of the week. A little two-hour camp or three-hour camp could work.

Mike Gillen  31:42

I think once I figure out online and get that going, it’ll free up some stuff plus, opening this up. Get a couple more kids, I think it’ll be all right.

Joey Myers  31:54

Well, thank you so much for coming on. We got to do a part two, maybe we’ll make this a common thing if it’s like once a month or something, we can do like thoughts with Michael Gillen.

Mike Gillen  32:10

What was the SNL thing, deep thoughts?

Joey Myers  32:13

Deep thoughts with Michael Gillen or all those kinds of baseball pitching training things. I must do something like that. Maybe we’ll do like a little bit more frequent ordeal.

Mike Gillen  32:24

Where’s your podcast?

Joey Myers  32:28

This is like an unofficial official podcast (you can find it on iTunes, Google Podcast, and Spotify). This is part of the Swing Smarter Monthly Newsletter, which is a paid newsletter that I send out to people, it’s like a $5 a month thing, or $10 a month thing.

Joey Myers  32:41

My coaches will subscribe to that, and I put this in two expert interviews, it’ll be you and it will be somebody else. I’m actually going to have a coach on who I’ve worked with all three of his boys hitting, his two older boys ones playing football in college right now.

Joey Myers  32:57

It didn’t work out on the baseball side. Then the other one I think is graduating high school this year. He’s kind of stopped from baseball, but the youngest brother is 13, dad coached a lot of the little league teams, a lot of them growing up as they were and he’s like the coach whisperer, so he’s the younger kid coach team whisperer.

Joey Myers  33:17

He told me a story the other day that one of his buddies was to coach in a team and highly organized coach he had every practice, three-hour practices by the way for these younger kids, way too long, right?

Joey Myers  33:30

He had three-hour practices plan to this second minute of what they’re doing and then their practices are overly scheduled, right. The guy goes, comes up to him and go, Shawn, I don’t know what to do, man. I got thorns in my feet and tears in my eyes.

Mike Gillen  33:49

A little bell that says inside joke.

Joey Myers  33:55

Yes, he said that. He goes, Yeah, we’re just not winning. We’re doing everything right. I got a plan. I got it organized. We’re doing what we need to do what’s wrong? Then Shawn the team whisperer, he goes, team party.

Mike Gillen  34:11


Joey Myers  34:12

He’s like what do you mean? They did a team party on a Saturday night. They had a doubleheader the next day and they swept the next day, they beat the other team twice.

Mike Gillen  34:22

You need a rain out!

Joey Myers  34:24

Exactly. This is a man-made natural disaster. So yes, I’m going to have him on, probably this next week. He’s got a day job; he does like Pharm and stuff.

Mike Gillen  34:37

I’d love to watch that. I’ve got one of my baseball pitching training clients. All have a problem or an issue with something and I think once I was trying to get a loan to pay for something…

Joey Myers
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2 replies
  1. Steven Reilly
    Steven Reilly says:

    Great interview Joey. Makes me want to rethink the old one-knee drill. Much of these concepts of the pitching delivery were espoused many years ago by Brent Strom before people began to buy into what he was saying. But I always remember at a Frozen Ropes clinic in New York he called pitching movements like traveling downhill on a flat bed trailer with a carousel and a ferris wheel with the arm action being the ferris wheel and the carousel being the hips. The first time also I learned that the old balance leg balance drill was counter momentum pitching. I wonder if Mike has come up with a drill to teach the forward movement?

    • Joey Myers
      Joey Myers says:

      Steven, all great observations and I totally agree. Mike does have some drills for forward momentum. I’ll try and get him to follow up on your comment, but I do know he uses a weighted sled in one of his drills (one of our mutual hitting/pitching students told me).


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