Baseball & Softball Preloading Hitting Torque OR Use Lower Half Hip Rotation For Power? | Swing Drills Over Rotating Experiment
How Much Ball Exit Speed Does Lower Body Contribute To A High Level Swing?
In this baseball and softball video post, we’ll be looking at whether preloading upper body hitting torque or using lower half hip rotation contributes for more power. Check out this swing drills over rotating experiment…
Do you consider yourself an open minded coach? If not, then this post MAY NOT be for you.
Do you consider yourself a coach willing to try new movements before criticizing them? If not, then this post MAY NOT be for you.
Fair WARNING…this video will make most feel uneasy because it strikes at the heart of their teaching. I believe the quality of our lives and the success we experience in it, depends solely on the questions we’re willing to ask our-self.
In this video, the Backspin Tee Gardner Brothers (Taylor & Jarrett Interview here) did a small thought provoking swing experiment that looked at how much value the lower half contributes to the swing. Most popular hitting instructors treat the lower half like a JoBu shrine in the movie Major League. Don’t get me wrong, the lower half has a role, but I disagree on the importance most put on it.
Using the Scientific Method…
Question
Taylor Gardner doing a Jumping No Hips Swing
They looked at how much value (measured in Ball Exit Speed) the lower half contributes to the swing by restricting its movement.
Background Research
Taylor read my book The Catapult Loading System
: How To Train 100-Pound Hitters To Consistently Drive The Ball 300-Feet, and it got him thinking about how much the lower half actually contributes to power compared to the shoulders? Earlier I mentioned how much the movement of the pelvis in the swing is worshiped by so many hitting coaches. “Fire the hips!” “Hip Thrust baby!” Sadly, the torsional forces are taken to the point of being unhealthy for a young hitter’s low back.
Consider what Charlie Weingroff, DPT, CSCS, a physical therapist and trainer in New York City said this:
“Only your thoracic spine (which consists of the 12 vertebrae in your upper and middle back) is designed to rotate significantly — about 40 degrees in each direction, according to Weingroff — when under compression. The lumbar spine (lower back) should rotate no more than about 12 degrees.”
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Let me give a clue, coaches want better separation, torque, lag, etc. in their hitters right? We see that a high level right handed hitter’s pelvis starts rotating counter-clockwise at the start of the turn, leaving the shoulders temporarily behind, this is the essence of “lag” or “torque”. But what coaches aren’t seeing is what’s happening before the ‘hips lead the way’? The compression and tension forces happening in the torso beforehand, to make that move possible.
If hitting coaches would do their homework on basic bio-mechanical locomotion and function of the spinal engine as a whole, then they’d find they’re missing 60-70% of the performance puzzle (as you’ll soon see), and quite possibly wearing a hole in the lower backs of their hitters.
I constantly see well intention coaches posting videos on Twitter of their young hitters savagely twisting the pelvis and low back (lumbar), in addition to the hyper-extension of the lower lumbar. Quite frankly, it’s painful to watch. CLICK HERE for an exercise to correct this.
Did you know there’s a much safer way to achieve those high BES numbers and more? Some books to get you started on the right track:
- Anatomy Trains
, by Thomas Myers - The Spinal Engine, by Dr. Serge Gracovetsky
- The Dynamic Body, by Dr. Erik Dalton
, by Thomas Myers
, by Dr. Serge Gracovetsky
, by Dr. Erik DaltonBy the way, Dr. Serge Gracovetsky is a Physicist and Electrical Engineer. He said the Spinal Engine can operate in space without Gravitational Forces. His research shows arms and legs aren’t necessary for locomotion, they’re an improvement. Please read that sentence again because it’s important to understand locomotion.
Can explosive high level athletes perform without the aid of Gravitational Reaction Forces? Check out the following videos:
Derek Jeter makes jump throw…
Jeter is jumping up and away from his target, taking his momentum in the opposite direction of first base. This should put him at a disadvantage, but it doesn’t hurt him too much, as you can see.
Big air motocross freestyle jumps…
Notice how these athletes use the head to control their body. No Gravitational Reaction Forces to help here either. But man can these athletes put a big smile on your face while watching this video!
Don’t seek the footsteps of others, seek the footsteps they sought.
Hypothesis
The Gardner brothers thought this mini swing experiment would show more of a minimal role of the lower half in the swing, compared to the “lower half worshiping” hitting coaches out there.
Experiment Setup Details
- 4 different hitters (Taylor – High School level hitter College Track & Field athlete, Jarrett – professional pitcher, Rookie in pro ball, home-run record holder at Div-1 college)
- Took Full Swings prior to experiment swings (the Control group), so they could compare to when the lower half was restricted
- Backspin Tee used on all swings (I know, shocker!)
- Chair used to hit ball while falling
- Pocket Radar to measure BES
- Used 2 judges for checks and balances
- Goal was to eliminate use of lower half
- Every one used the same metal bat, a Copperhead C405 34 inch, 30 ounce (-4)
to measure BES
Data Collected
Based on control swings, this graph shows average BES as % of the control swings, Highest BES as %, & Lowest BES as % of each of the four hitters. Photo courtesy: BackSpinTee.com
Graph shows top BES per hitter on control swings, when Stationary No Hips, when Jump Float No Hips, Falling Float No Hips, Lead Leg Only No Hips, and Avg. BES. Photo courtesy: BackSpinTee.com
Data Analysis & Conclusion
Small sample sizes can cause a lot of problems, so there definitely needs to be more data points to make a conclusive decision. However, with the data we have, the fact four different hitters participated on all swing experiments, in looking at the last graph, you can see that when the lower half was restricted, Ball Exit Speeds were around two-thirds of top exit velocity of control swings (normal swings). Think Jeter making his jump throw! So from this small sample size, we can say the lower half contributes about one-third to the Exit Speeds of these four hitters.
I’d love to hear your thoughts in the Comments section below. Be nice, be respectful.
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Joey,
I think that the actual amount contributed from the hips is even less than the experiment shows. The tension put on the fascia tissue is very different when the hitter’s feet are on the ground. Remember that that ground pushes back on the feet. That pressure allows the fascia tissue to reach closer to maximum tension and thus recreate higher potential energy and bat speed. I suspect that the hips would contribute more like 15% of the ball exit speed.
Thanks,
Weylan McAnally
You may be right Weylan. What I found quite interesting was Dr. Serge Gracovetsky’s (author of The Spinal Engine) answer to my question of whether the spinal engine needs Gravitational Forces to operate…and he said the spinal engine can work in space (doesn’t need Gravity), but gravitational forces can amplify its locomotion.
Joey,
Interesting. I guess you can get a high BES without use of hip rotation (not sure about batted ball difference – they should have done it outside) but I wouldn’t want to stake my at bats on it. But this does confirm the significance of spine engine in driving human movement. I won’t try what they did, though. Wouldn’t want to sprain an ankle or twist a knee. These guys have way too much time on their hands.
Haha, “too much time on their hands”…that’s what happens when you get high level athletes together asking better questions. I agree, don’t try this with kids, but does lend credence to staying sideways. I beginning to believe more and more that the value of the pelvis is in aiding directional force, and not adding significantly to the force itself.
In my experience the hips are important, but I’m not convinced it’s important to teach. I focus on teaching hitters to land correctly with the front knee/foot pointed to the 2nd baseman (for RH). I find that when this is executed correctly, the hips become engaged and contribute fully to the swing. I love the simplicity.
I agree, the pelvis (or hips) have value but not a teach.
I don’t know but losing 25-30% ball exit speed is pretty significant in my opinion. No? Thoughts? It’s about what I would have expected.
Mark, it’s a small sample size, we’d have to do more experiments on this to know for sure, but I think it gives us a good ballpark of value.
Actually Joey, It is absurd that you could discount hip movement as a basis for gaining speed or force. Even though most of the force comes from the rotational forces generated by the core while stabilizing and pushing off of the ground. Call it Springy Fascia or what ever you want to call it. In order to create an explosive movement, their must be ground force or something solid in which to push off of. An example would be when you are treading in 30 feet of water, there probably would be no way for a person to make an explosive movement in the opposite direction without something solid to push off of. Hence, there would be no ground force. Also in the video, there was very little shoulder loading or unloading in which they were clearly doing when their high speeds were generated. Basically they were just making swings with their hands and arms. This is not a conducive way to create any force. This whole experiment has nothing to do with the hips. This is ground force application to its highest limitations.
Coach DeLong
Professional Instructor
Head High School Baseball Coach
Rodney, with all due respect, I don’t think you read the post. Here’s what I said about the hips (actually the pelvis): “Don’t get me wrong, the pelvis has a role, but I disagree on the importance most put on it.” Look at the image of Taylor Gardner in the post doing a fall out of a chair swing, look at the position of his pelvis (going opposite direction), in relation to the shoulders. They aren’t just using arms and hands. Before this conversation can go on any further, I’d highly recommend picking up a copy of Tom Myers book Anatomy Trains and Dr. Serge Gracovetsky’s book The Spinal Engine. It doesn’t seem you have a complete understanding of springy fascia. It will wreck your hitting world, like it did mine 5 years ago. Please ask better questions and not just follow the herd. I suspect your hitters can do much better, and that’s a great thing!
Joey I can respectfully disagree with you more… To start when did losing a quarter of your velocity not present a significant difference….when the presenter says at the end without using the lower half… Again this in error… Of course the lower half and the hips are doing work… They are connected to the upper half.
To start did the batters just turn off there hips… absolutely NO… You can SEE the damn tension in the hips prior to there swings…
So to answer your question ” how much does ball exit speed does the pelvis contribute to ball exit speed”
Well you have to hit the ball first… you have to get in the right position first…
It’s like saying… how much do those tires contributed to race cars velocity… we’ll take them off and you’ll find out…
I’m sorry but the question is flawed and you know it unless everyone here wants to pick on the “it’s all in the hips” people… let’s not make that nonsense answer questions we shouldn’t ask…
They are TONS of little muscles that make the big muscles work but how do we measure what contributes to batted ball velocity…
At the end if WE take a system and start attributing rankings to parts we’ll end up missing the WHOLE thing and if we are talking about a system than it’s the WHOLE damn thing that is important….
I’m sorry but I don’t like where this video can lead people… It’s like a half truth… Which is worse than a lie…
~DM
By the way, the batters lost a quarter of there velocity and they still had there hips turned ON…yea… they claimed they didn’t use them… That’s Bull shit…
Right they were just turned off…They just didn’t use them… image if they just turned them off…
It’s funny if I swing a bat, my hips are turned off but GUESS what, they still move… no seriously they do…
Oh I mean I move them… wait… they just move…
Seriously… let’s just cut out the counter to the shoulders and what makes the center the center and say it has no significance to ball exit velocity…
Guess what the hands have no significance too…
Well I guess it all depends on how you want to explode the HALF TRUTH…
The pelvis has in my view and I dont want to put a ranking on it a high significance to the high level swing… Ask someone with a messed up pelvic floor…
The pelvis is difficult to even discuss as what is the pelvis… what are the hips… femurs? The thighs are extremely important as what the arms do the legs do too…Thighs need to be understood and I never EVER hear anyone talk about thighs which link up at the pelvis…if you don’t know what the thighs do than YOU can’t understand the center… The fact is if you understand the CENTER than by default you know what the thighs do or else you do t understand the center…
The HALF TRUTH is just because it appears the PELVIS isn’t doing anything doesn’t mean the Pelvis is turned off…. So it’s doing something and they still lost a quarter….
The worst part of this half truth is it somehow focuses the significance away from the hips…
Funny how a bad shoulder turn can be directly related to the hips…
At any rate… find the center and work your way out….. And DONT rank the parts but you’ll realize that the power is in you and it gets revealed to you….
So your Hips need to be preset and they’ll do what they have to…
As you load your back hip is a point of interest and as you unload the front hip is of interest…and if you can grab them both with your hands than the gears are working and stop focusing on them as you can control them elsewhere…
Joey you know better than everyone that the eyes can lie…
If we had a bunch of gears going around… you will notice the small gears moving around and perhaps not notice the big gears move… But a little movement of the big gears go a long way… or at least translates differently among the system….
If they say with little movement of the pelvis… you mean with little movement of the big gear…
The problem lies with the numbers… Tbey didn’t use there hips the best way to start…
So what was their exit velocity to start… oh yea not the elite swing was it… it’s already down 25% than you add the fact that they didn’t use there hips right to start and they obviously used there hips when saying they didn’t…
The gears work together… That’s it!!!!
If you believe in the center than it’s the center for a reason….
The hips do a lot and one of its job is to add velocity to the ball… Enough said…
Obviously the hands control it ALL… read Thomas Myers… So where this is going is control….
So why stop at the hips are meaningless… The whole damn thing is meaningless because you can control them with your hands… Obviously using your center and spine…
?
~DM
Djura, I agree with you, it’s the whole system, as you say. However, most out there teach hitting from ONLY a “hip thrust” point of view, negating the shoulders. This is who this video was aimed at. It’s to cast reasonable doubt in their heads. The fascial system reveals how the head is connected to the feet and vice versa. The body DOES NOT move in parts, it moves as one piece. This video asks the question, what if we restrict the pelvis, compared to what most teach, and what will happen. Although not a perfect swing experiment – rarely are there any – it does give insight. And it’s not all about the hands either Djura…it’s hands, shoulders, pelvic floor, and the feet, or fascial tensioning and tension stacking: http://gohpl.com/2CzuWQl
Djura, you’re right the pelvis is the biggest gear, which SHOULD move the least. Again, I know you don’t have access to what other coaches teach, but let me give a clue, it’s a “hips do everything approach”. This is more off base than your alleging here. Remember, the vertebra in the lumbar CANNOT rotate. It’s muscles rotating around a fixed center. With 6 vertebra in the low back, there is only 5-12 degrees of rotation allowed. More than that, and you’re burning a hole in your hitter’s low back. The T-Spine has 40-degrees of rotation, in both directions, with 12 vertebra! The Pelvis’s role is initiating movement and optimizing directional force, and should not be the main force generator. This is the point.
Nice video link… I love the shortfoot, stacking and the “I’m not holding my breath” teachings…
Obviously it’s never one thing or another… the hands comment was just to introduce a half truth perhaps even that is debatable…
Notice how when she was upright how she stacked… yep from the ground up… oh no she didn’t…. notice what was the last thing to be stacked….yep the hands…
Joey can you hold it all in your hands…
Can you push your hands together facing each other… if you lean forward what does your hands do… better yet, what does your hip do…
Watch the video again, she stacked the hands last…
If I had a cooked spaghetti can I work the ends… No…
If I had a raw spaghetti if I move one end would that be the same….
What if it’s a spaghetti rubber band… a strong one… if I just twisted the end of that strong band…the rest of the band wants to untwist it…
But you can’t have slack or else the force isn’t there…Even a little slack…
Powers in the CORE or Center my ASS… its in the alignment first… When she stacked upright she started with shortfoot… and worked her way up…
Again it’s all from the toes to knees, knees to elbows and elbows to finger tips… and yes the shoulders and neck will want to say something…
Also, we are stacking FOR 2 swings…
Said another way… you have to know how to preset and than you need to know the right approach….
Short foot is a form of presetting so you engage the glutes… and the ground to the center…among other things… said another way, so you can turn your hips on the right way
?
Awesome video…the one in the link …
Thanks…I do have questions about bracing and breathing if you ever want to make a video on that…
By the way, I like thinking of moving my body in triangles… 3 points….
Funny how we have 3 nerves in our hands…
How the tensegrity people like 3’s…
Everything is a bunch of 3’s…. until there not…
Joey stack up to the hands and just swing and only use your hands to pull it back and brace yourself as you pull it back…
Parts of your hands should stay extended like the ring and middle finger…
The problem is if your posture is not right…
But try it if you have some extra time….
Anything?
Joey I have a question is the hips and the pelvis one in the same…..
Yea… the lumber is not good for rotation….why would you force it?
Joey it’s the 3’s…. Didn’t you say that side bend and “spine angle ” equals rotation… hmmmm… I see 3 there…
The hands have 3 nerves..
It’s the 3’s… for example your wrist… side bend and palmer flex … and what do you get…
Rotation????well I thought the wrist can’t rotate…
well than push that plamer flex back to neutral with the other hand and now you have something built in…
It’s the lead hip, lead shoulder and rear elbow….The BIG 3……
It’s your foot being a tripod.. It’s all in 3’s….
Joey , you can’t stay connected and not engage your hips… it’s part of the BIOTENSEGRITY that makes up of what I would call THE BIG 3….
Notice how part of what i call the big 3, one the guys in the video said basically turned off, is NOT on the same side… said another way, your hands and feet have 3 major points depending its posture but can share the points with each other… so 2 in that foot and 1in the other… the hands too…Either way, just an observation…
So if your asking value for the hips…It’s part of the BIG 3….You have to have it…
I hear what your saying…. but the particulars are important and noting that not focusing on the hips is not the same thing as turning them off…
At the end…. Joey you did bodywork and I’m sure that bodywork part of you wants to say the pelvis is just a beast…not some little thing…
And your right the big gears don’t need to make big movements…to resonate throughout the system….The fact is… the hips are and I should trademark this
silent but deadly…
Shit where do I come up with this… I swear that’s honest truth… You don’t focus on them as you do others… It’s resisting and control and directional… it’s not rotational but linear to a certainty extent… like you already know the pelvis is a beast… The idea that you turn it off is so laughable…. but yea like all other cues… in the right context like for the ones that are ” it’s all in the hips”… yea I get it but two wrongs don’t make a right…
The Hips are important but not necessarily in a rotational way… but even that I may not like…actually I don’t as the hips, the upper legs do move and clear and all that crap…
I like… the pelvis is a beast and silent but deadly….
I love your comments Joey…but they don’t reflect what the guys in the video we’re implying….
And I’m sure after a few mins you’ll remember that the pelvis is just a beast….
I’m going to keep on saying it because I’m sure the more I say it the more you’ll just think… hold up …all hips and no hips people… you don’t know but the pelvis is just a beast and your undercutting its value
?
By the way… just using shortfoot can change your pelvis and indirectly your shoulders….. how do we measure that value…
Joey… you don’t need arms and legs… This is a half truth… you need balance and the connections to be… it works from the center out… if you have arms and legs you best use them…. there there for a reason… but people with bad posture get there shit all mixing up together…
Said another way… if I had perfect posture my finger tips are alive and well… nerves and movements are true… if my posture is bad… than those nerves are cut off and my finger tips are now in my lower fingers…
Saying you don’t need your limbs just implies that it’s center out… Remember it’s CENTER OUT… you best use what you have… you have it for a reason…It would be to difficult to get into those details…but… yea… if your not connected than I guess your limbs are useless… but now that just isn’t right either… it’s never completely turned off. ?
Sorry Joey… I don’t mean to be argumentative…. it’s just there’s so much grey in this and baseball instructions are given like it’s black and white…
And that video where they are squeezing and applying all this force to there hips and suggesting it’s turned off … or imply that my biggest gear only moved a little.. just bugged me… good night…Hope all is well…
~DM
Joey notice that the shoulders are not both flat as the rear shoulder is higher… so what about the hips that are turned off… are they not matching the shoulders… oh wait apparently the pelvis is inly rotational… linear forces don’t count I guess… Hip hinges don’t count…You mentioned the lumber spine and rotation… I thought “spine angle” was one of the big 3….
And as we already noted a little movement goes a long way…. but it has to have the tracks built in… no tracks built in and your asking for REAL trouble…what about flexion and extension… don’t count either….
If you side bend does your pelvis move at all…If you bend over does your pelvis move… and if you bend over and side bend what do you get…
Oh wait… it only moves just a little… Yea… the ones who don’t know can claim ignorance…
Joey… think about doing this again… The pelvis is a beast….It’s silent but deadly… its movements are slight but those movements move shit… because the pelvis is a BEAST….
I’m just messing with you…just turn it off… said the people trying to teach the its ” all in the hips” people…. Funny when we try to convince people who just don’t know we end up going to there level….
When I hear it’s all in the hips… I know what they mean… and no point correctly them as this shit is complicated as I said once before… all I say is… yea… the pelvis is a beast…
Seriously… look into the 3’s… you’ll like what you see if you don’t know it already…
Later…
You can’t really use your center unless you set your pelvis and you set your rib cage first than you use your center to pull them together…please read that sentence again… ?Because if you miss that than you may worship others who didn’t realize they were working with perfect models or didn’t realize efficiency counts… Especially in an explosive move like hitting a ball…
Hope all is well… as I’m getting a kick out of this…
Because if you turn your hips or lower half off… Than you can’t use your center or your upper half effectively… is a fact….
FACT…. wait… let me watch the video once again… perhaps it’s fact changing….
By the way… if you have no limbs does that mean you don’t have ground reaction forces….
Can’t you still us your hump to levarge the ground…
Take a spring away from the ground … what do you have…
?
Ok…. if it’s focus… upper body rotates ( ribcage) and the lower body lowers and raises, up and down ( pelvis)…. so you hands will follow… and your feet will follow too… so for example your back foot should feel like it’s going straight down into the ground….Obviously this affects hip placement and shoulder placement…so if you think hip extension than shoulder does what???? I think you get it….
On the load you focus on….well ill not go there….
Joey,
I am not missing what you said. Please dont misunderstand me. I love all of your material, and I study a lot of people. I am just disagreeing to a point with your experiment. I read the article clearly. Long before you began your scientific method of sequencing the body, people have been teaching these same principles in the golf swing. They didn’t call it what you call it, but it was introduced as a hip to shoulder differential. Most of the big hitters in the golf really achieve a high level of separation. I do not preach that the hips must do all the work, however I want my students to feel their core turning early in order for their shoulders to unwind and create the highest rotational force possible. Without any scientific wording, I could tell you that wherever direction your belly button faces, your chest will naturally point in the same direction. Your body does not want to stay in a twisted position. So when you move those two in opposite directions they will unwind. So wherever the belly button goes, the chest must follow eventually. I get my students to get to a full 90 degree turn on a ball that is middle in, with their hips and let the shoulders unwind past that point upon completion of that rotation. Its not about the hips, its about the rotation of the body. I use the Diamond Kinetics swing sensor, and I study thousands of swings. One of the biggest gains in speeds are from this separation and its unwinding effect. So keep doing what you do, and I will tune in, and thanks for replying to me….
Coach DeLong
Coach DeLong, now that sounds like someone who actually read the post. I see a big difference between coaches who do and don’t. And I agree with you 100% about the role of the pelvis. This post addresses those coaches who live and die by the pelvis in teaching the swing. They’re wrong. Like Djura says, it’s one of the big gears…however, it’s not the only big gear, and that’s the point.
Joey your video with the women is so on point…
Watch Bonds, Aaron…. Do you see them stacking…. It’s hard to explain but it’s the toes to the knee… the knee to the elbows and the elbows to the hands…. you stack them as she said…. Than you push your hands together… Bonds is trying to hold the WHOLE STACK when you see his hands pump… And when a novice tries to do it they actual pump there hands… you stack with your hands last…. Than you use your hands again but now your “stacking from hand to hand” not from the ground up…Once you do that…. than all you have to do is breath and you start looking like Gary shifield and bonds…and all your doing is breathing….Because it all gets moved…. except for the triggers….and the triggers come in 3….
So try to pump your hands by breathing!!! But you have to know how to stack…
If you do shortfoot raise your toes first… for your hands… make believe there’s a vacuum in the center of your palm sucking your palm out and let your upper half follow so you can align your upper half…
Try using your center to pull in the bottom and top… How??? Relax… Short foot… hold your pee… hold your poop… and pull it all in through your center…
So it’s not center first… its alignment first than pull it all in with the center ????
But it seems to go in circles???? I don’t know?????
The reason I went off was… it’s your alignment…Its not your hips and it’s not not your hips… it’s spine/neck…. pelvis-ribcage…. shoulders-hips…. etc….and yes you need them all unless you don’t have them…
It’s just a bunch of gears all together and everyone s wants to focus on one gear… take any gear out and your lost the system…Right?
Do I have this wrong?
~DM
Later…
So Joey the reason I have a tighter coil is your not doing all the sequences fully…
For example… There’s up and down, there’s wide and two swings…
Thats what I would love to discuss…
The spine actually moves from lining up with the right leg to lining up with the other… and in between it lines up with both legs….
This is what I think….and if your grip isn’t what I have you hit off one leg more or when your at contact you disconnected or your throwing the bat….
My 2 sense… I’ll stop unless you want to discuss this… later and happy holidays …
~DM
By the way it’s transferring of energy from the ground….
Obviously thats additional power…
But saying tires don’t matter on a car because of a big engine doesn’t make sense… yes the engine is great but there are different tires for a reason…
The baseball swing is a system… The system includes the spinal engine, the limbs, the bat and the ground…Why not use them ALL and not make part rankings…because our favorite shouldn’t be the hips, legs, hands or core… it should be the whole thing…
Because the people who love all of it… are the ones hitting it better….
This is why I always say that this shit is complicated… and if you dont know all of it than you better find someone like Joey to teach you…
Joey… I think NEW INSTRUCTION should emphasis the counterpart to parts and the complexity of the swing… Of you don’t it’s almost like the cues… a lot of half truths… and perhaps you might get more customers ?
?
Joey,
I meant that I (me, personally,) wouldnt try it for I surely would break or tear something. I’m glad that these young guys conducted the experiment. Yes, perhaps too many guys out there are over emphasizing the hip component of the swing. I agree with your statement of the hips providing directional force. Remember, the body parts are linked. I think that Ted Williams would have seen the error of his theories and principles if he had modern technology. Heck, did he even have video? I think his conclusions may have come from his own intuition or derived from him looking into a mirror as he swung, analyzing his swing as he went.
Absolutely Joe
Rodney….question ????
You speak of twisted body doesn’t want to stay twisted….and this separation is key…
If I just relaxed and pointed my pelvis to the pitcher and set it and than set my rib cage ( let’s say the top of my ribcage) to the catcher did I twist my body and create separation…
What is separation?
How bout if I tucked my pelvis or I guess stacked my pelvis as the video that Joey provided in the comments above taught “stacking”, over my feet .. than I follow to my hands… than separate my pelvis and shoulders… would that be the same?
Another angle… you said wherever the belly button points the chest points… well what if someone starts with a ribcage displacement…
What if somebody fails to let go of the resistance…
And is it the turn what we care about…
If the turn is no more than a complicated push and letting go of a spring… Than perhaps the first thing we should look for is the strongest spring…
Alignment and compression ?
Your so right… it’s really only a twist… More like a twist and than you let it go right there….
Let’s go of the twist MUST be felt in the lead hand first… or else your out of sequence… read that again as it’s no small thing…
The spine does some funny things…
By the way what moves the spine… well the spine… well… yes and no… The legs keep it up but it comes from the spine…. Funny… we have this deep front line that connects the legs and the spine….
Funny how the HIP joint is part of both the “core” and the legs….
So in theory… its toes to knees and knees to elbows and elbows to hands… well knees to elbows contains the neck ????
Said another way…. the most obvious but subtle point is… the hips are controlled from the center and from the limbs separate from the center… and lastly it can all be solidified which makes the center reach farther…and other crazy combinations….
So saying the hip this or separatation that is great but still leaves room for misunderstanding…
Everything should really be spoken in terms of slings or alignment….
But at the end it’s complicated… and the more we know the more the complexity and questions we have…
~DM
Has anybody heard of Codman’s paradox?
I find that interesting…
~DM
Since we have a little circle…how bout some sayings…
I like use your forehands…or elbows…
I like inner thighs or knees …or knees over the second big toe… so rear first than lead…
I like swing the handle and push the barrel…
I like hip hinge… on the rear… so get the rear knee to straighten up to the rear shoulder…
Obviously no absolutes and I have more but I need to keep some ?
Anybody use these…Anybody like them or not like them… I’m still trying to get the instructional part down… I seem to never get my points accross… I’m sure you what have known it from my comments…
Obviously we understand stacking now… From the ground up…. but if your not tensing the right parts than it’s a problem…
Joey the doctor from your previous link…
https://youtu.be/cfbnE2MCSv8
If you get how important this is than we should be good…
This is by far one of the major players in crushing a ball…. just like the pros when I was a kid…. I positioned myself the right way…After awhile it happen by just touching a bat….
✌️
By the way, what was called stacking I was calling presetting and coordinating….
In the baseball swing… unlike just standing upright….
The stacking is not as straightforward as one may think…
If you know your approach… like performing 2 swings… than stacking that movement is easy…
I’ve said it before… I coordinate my fascia lines and the hand for example has multiple forces and should not be looked at as one element…
And still no question ?
Remember if you move you hands an inch the barrel moves a lot move…
Going from this angle… if you move your sacrum an inch how would that affect the T-spine???
And is the sacrum part of the pelvis????
Ok… I think your ignoring me now… I’m really not trying to be an a**… I’m just trying to show the many different angles and the difficulties I have with the above video…I love 99% of your work and you teacher me plenty… Thanks..
Sorry for my OCD moment…Hope all is well…
~DM
Joey… I’m just going to straight you and say it… YOUR WRONG….
You stack from the ground up since your hands are not on the ground and your using the ground as a source of power via the legs since the legs are the only part of your body on the ground…
AS such the power go from your sacrum out…
You CONTROL that power with your shoulders and lastly your hands…
If you FEEL powerful in the shoulders or hands it’s because your controlling that power with the upper body as the lower body is grounding the lower part and your twisting it with the upper…
You can’t twist something that is floating….So by grounding it you bring life to the spinal engine…
It’s like putting tires on a car… Now the engine can do some work….
Take the legs away… well than you ground your pelvis…. Something has to be grounded and in our case it goes through the hips and it moves from the sacrum and we hold it with our hands until we want to deliver it… if I’m wrong please feel free to explain…
Even in water, we move from the sacrum out as we swim…. So being grounded means we can move the sacrum a hell of a lot more which means the rib cage moves a hell of a lot more…
So the limbs amplify… yea… it it’s substantial… And you bet that the pelvis is a BEAST!!!!!
A BEAST!!!!!
BEASTLY I say… ?
Joey… Don’t let the amount of movement or the type of movement make things unclear…
Top is more for controlling… the top Obviously the t-spine is more for controlling…
Bottom is more for power… the bottom obviously the pelvis is for power…
The ribcage moves more…
Tbe pelvis moves less and is more up and down..
Compare the legs and arms. Legs are bigger gears and arms are the small gear….
The legs leverage the ground which by the way perhaps you can but I can’t move the EARTH…
The arms levarge a bat… My arms do in FACT move the bat… I know… Amazing!!!!!
My weak ass legs can’t move the EARTH…
But my might ass arms can whip that bat…
Your right… the shoulder joint with those arms are much stronger than my bigger legs in my hip joint…
Seriously…ate you saying you want the lower have for control and the top half for power???
Your getting caught up with a bunch of people trying to play gotcha…..Get away from them…
I’m not going to use my pelvis but I will use my center and shoulder…
What they are implying is pulling the string of a bow and arrow without holding onto the frame…
Seriously they didn’t hold and resist the frame or pelvis… and they even said it moved a little… if it moved a little than you held I onto it…
Bottom half is power and the top half is control… I can give you references but they would be the same ones you told me to read years ago…
Funny how we can get caught up in trying to prove one point only too take it to far the other way…
Joey just make another article clearing this up
https://youtu.be/wQqqF1UHi14
Ben Hogan says it best… use your knees from the top of your swing…
Translation…
“Top of your swing” is after you STACKED as you priovided… You stack from the ground up so obviously your last stacked region is your HANDS and as thus the TOP OF YOUR SWING…
Use Your lower half first at the knees than your shoulder and hit with your hands…
Get grounded and use your front deep lines at your hips… This is the knees which moves your sacrum…Use this and follow your stacking… You already made your stack which is your tracks..
https://youtu.be/TjWlSVQ9Hw0
Sorry for the golf references but I couldn’t find baseball reference…
The pelvis rotation is misleading as you have positioning involved…
And I’m not sure I’m entirely convinced they are doing it right but it a still a good teachings…
~DM
Joey,
Yet, Ted Williams did all those things, knowingly or unknowingly, that are components of your hitting system from showing his number to skipping his back foot to his perfect follow through, which exemplifies the ‘X’ pattern as well as anyone.
Joey,
I really did like your experiment. I am not completely sure what Mr. Djura is saying, but I would guess most folks on here don’t as well. You guys are both out of my league when it comes to the human anatomy. However, I am an educated man, and I have earned my MBA. That being said, I am very analytical of the swing. If you or someone else tells me something about how to increase more speed, I simply apply it and measure the results myself. Your swing experiment proves that the pelvis only provides roughly 1/3 of the bodys potential for power. Which you say pelvis, and I say core. But what I try to do on a daily basis is get maximum results from my students. I give you my younger son, 17 years old. I began working on speed training with him back in late September after his travel ball and fall ball had ended. We started off with hand and barrel speeds of around 23 mph, and 62 mph. Launch angles were roughly -15 to -20 degrees. In our sessions on the field in a front toss setting, he would hit a few balls to the wall, and occasionally hit one out. One of the big moves that we needed to make was from a slightly open stance which is what he prefers not me, to the stride position or launch position and getting his shoulders to that showing the numbers position or further if he could as well as that front foot landing about 45 to 60 degrees open. Immediately his swings went up to mid to upper 60’s. He stayed in that range for about a month or so. I started analyzing further his rotational force as well as his directional force and his hand path. I tried to tweak his directional force in the direction of say to right field, he is a lefty, I saw no gains or even slight decreases in speeds. What I did see was when he made a closed movement with his strides, his speeds would increase. I next focused on rotational forces. His body was turning, and his core was moving his back side, he was gaining ground and transferring 100% of his weight. Still, no major increases in speeds. Then I noticed something in our sessions. I noticed when his hand cast was at 0-3 inches away from his body during his swings, that his speeds would be really low, even into the high 50’s. So we did an experiment that involved directional rotational forces. My hypothesis was that his barrel path was being interupted by his arms and hands pulling the bat inside to contact. My instructions to him was to take his hands to the ball and make no effort to get inside the baseball. The results were stunning. I noticed it right away. Contact was much more violent. Balls started jumping off his bat. His hand cast distance raised to consistently around 30 inches from his body. His speeds jumped up to around 25 mph with his hands and 75-77 mph with his barrel. His launch angles started to climb from 15-25 degrees positive, and the ball really started flying. Another month later, as his timing started to get better, his scap load, showing his numbers, and the directional force of his stride, to go along with the rotational force that was uninterrupted with his hand path, that fell inline with his rotational core movement, his hand and barrel speeds reached phenomenal measures of 27 mph for hands and 92 mph for barrel speeds. One of our sessions, my son Zac hit 34 balls out. Pretty much, every session after that, he would hit at least 15 to 20 balls out on the field. My point is, that in order to swing at the maximum but efficient levels that are truly upper level speeds that professional hitters swing at, the athlete must align and move his entire body in sequence and that it is not just his hips. The stretching of his upper half against his lower half, and then unwinding to create maximum force. Thanks again Joey….
Coach DeLong
Coach Delong you make some good points and I don’t know if I understand what I’m saying too ?
So to start, I personally don’t like saying core but most others haven’t read the books that Joey suggest and continue to use a broadly undefined term…
I like saying the Deep Front Line…
My view is it’s best to set up the other lines so your feet to knees and your elbows to your hands are set up…
From there I believe it’s tension and more importantly pressure that I would look into…
So you should have pressure from trying to move the earth with your feet… and tension in particular points along said pressure which tells you you aligned… for example going into your pelvis not on top of it…
You should have pressure on the bat handle via the hands and tension along those points for example your scap, triceps… etc…
So your Deep front line wpild be in play now that your set up…
So you have Two swings… One getting on plane and the other through the ball…
Now you can get into these positions in MANY ways. And this is where I feel that it’s not just getting into the hitting position but how you get there that also counts but I’m not sure…
So the first swing doesn’t matter in the sense that you don’t have to worry about the sequence so much that you adjust to just get in over with but so as long as you don’t mess up the sequence of the second swing…
Now the second swing does matter… As you need to go from the ground up and the next region controls the energy coming up…
To a certain extent it’s like dominoes but it’s possible to let it all go but hold it at the end of the chain… Now if you do that the speed of the transfer is fastest…
So to start al you need to know is the chain… if you know that that you can practice hold the transfers…
The first part is getting on plane… This is where I feel the top hitters get it right but they don’t know how they do it…
And this is what I never give up… But this is the biggest bang for your buck….
It’s an approach and than needs to be practiced to make sure you measure correctly…
This is where golf and baseball teachings can look different but there not…
Have you ever had a kid crush ball pitched and than look like he never hit a ball on a tee…
I never hit a ball of the tee… The first time I hit off a tee… I seriously felt upset and confused… It took my awhile to figure it out….
My approach was so ingrained with the movement of the pitchers movements but I didn’t know until I looked into it…
Your quote ” my instructions was take your hands into the ball and don’t get inside”….
There’s more to it than that but in the right framework… this statement is BIG…
To start… in baseball… The worst thing you can do is tell someone to stay inside…
Inside means the the right swing… so stay inside says go to the inside of the right swing…
Take your hands to the ball… Well if you know what the hands controls and the sequence up to the hands that we are good..The hands have a lot going on… It’s has a plurality of parts… NOT ONE THING!!!!
well in the first swing your good so as long as you know the path on plane which means sequence of both swings…In the second swing… you better be holding the tension in those hands before you release which means you started from the ground up in somewhat of a stacking way…
I just learned of this term stacking… I like it…
Said another way… you start with the hands and you work your way down and back up to the hands…
The first gets you on plane and the second is licking its chops ?
Perhaps what do I know…I know that either I’m losing everyone or they don’t want to bother which I hope not or perhaps people don’t want to give it up…
Hope all is well…
~DM
DM,
I need to talk to you further on the Stacking approach. I’m not sure I understand the first swing. Unless it is as what I call a launch position where separation occurs, and the body is tilted with good spine angle. I believe if hitters achieve this position, than pitch plane is not a problem because desired launch angles will naturally be gotten to by the hitter by simply rotating around their axis. As far as the hands going to the ball, this is just a mental thought early and literally doesn’t take place until the body has begun rotating, which I consider to happen after connection with the back arm slotting under the shoulder with the barrel working rearward and around the shoulder. It is then that the hands continue on an interrupted path to contact that virtually swings around the body and not in a linear fashion like so many people are trying to teach. DM please feel free to message me on face book. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks…
Coach DeLong
Rodney…
I think to start that the tracks ought to be already fixed so it’s mostly letting go of resisting elements but not necessarily everything is resisting..
For separation… I feel like most batters separate too early… Separation ought to happen later in the swing….For a few reasons… which is complicated…
Actually it’s possible (I think so) that the upper body gets slightly ahead of the lower body and your keeping good vision out in front with both eyes in great field of view…And just like Ben Hogan and Ted Williams said you lead with the lower half for a certain extent… but it’s not without the proper tensioning first…and than we get the separation everybody speaks of but now we get the separation and upper body resistance…
For example if the coil is tight… and twist your body … how do we twist it…
Well if you turn your ribcage towards the pitcher than your pelvis ought to reflect that movement…
But what about the rest of the system….The arms and legs… if your coil is tight ..,you really want your whole “core” to act as one unit working our limbs….But our inner thighs ought to be part of our “core”, see Thomas Myers myofascia meridian called the Deep front line.
Our linear energies making our rotation… not the other way around…So we need both linear and rotational… Anybody who emphasizes one over the other doesn’t get it…
As for the two swings… I’m glad you asked…Its complicated…
But to start… What do you get if you take two circles and combine them… well… what I think is the part of the swing we want in the strike zone…
So all you need to do is start the first swing first this the reason I labeled it the first swing..
To start you need to know how to stack your grip and than you need to know the approach…
If you know it you will always hit across your face no matter the ball placement…
You said that the barrel moves back and than your elbow gets slotted… To start I’m sure your not looking at the barrel or thinking of the barrel… if so… stop… you ought to know where the barrel is at all times without looking…
Second….are you trying to get barrel to the ball…
Stop it again… The barrel is too far from you to be thinking about using the barrel… You should know where it is and the fact that the second swing is from behind you to in front of you and the ball in between that path…
That’s the second swing… you should see and feel that with your eyes close… if you can’t than you don’t have control of the barrel…
Because if you have control… than the first swing would be so strange because you know where the barrel is st all times…perhaps calling the first part a swing could be misleading but it makes perfect sense for me…
You swing behind and you swing in front of you… The intent is key… The swing behind you is to get on plane so it’s control focused and the swing in front is power driven so it’s letting go…
The first swing is measuring like pointing with your lead hand than punching with your rear …
I talked to a pro one day and told him the most important part of the swing is the part wher you point to the ball… you measure it up… once you do that you just turn where you pointed.. and before you know it it’s crushed…
Another part is like the focus of holding your breath and slowing the game down…
The hyper focus…Before the turn…
Again it’s complicated but I warn you I played stickball in Queens as a kid… I never played organized ball…
But as a kid if you gave me a stick and a rock.. I could hit it harder than anyone and was half the size… So I just wanted to let you know I’m as far away from a pro as you can get… and I was never taught to hit… it was a few years ago when I tried teaching my son how to hit and heard what everyone was teaching where I started to learn what I did as a kid… so I reversed engineered my kid swing… it helps that I’m an engineer and most likely have OCD or ADD…
There’s more to my madness but perhaps we can email each other if your interested… i live in the Tampa area if your ever in town I know I haven’t heard entirely my point of view…
Anyway I’m out as it’s Christmas… Read you after the holidays…
~DM
Rodney your not getting it..
Using your center or untwisting will NOT NATURALLY get you on plane… This is a fact….
Your have to point to it with your the finger that is some odd way is call the pointer…The first swing points or measures… it’s not just a lateral tilt or pushing the barrel rearward…
Look we don’t pay attention to the barrel because we know where it is and if you don’t than you can’t point to the ball because you lost the barrel…
Don’t for a second think turning your core is something more than JUST turning your core.. it’s a power thing… Your eyes and shoulders and pointer finger gets you in the right place… but you need your core to pull you in so your posture or alignment LETS your finger act like your eyes…
Hogan said he was able to control is hook… and he also said he learned a lot from Ted Williams and baseball players… The swing is the swing..Swinging a rod of your choice wood bat, stickball bat or a golf club.. it’s all just a rod using the same human body…You get on plane with your hands… this is a fact… it’s like you stack for the first swing than because you have to get around the rear leg to get on the lead leg the swing changes to a second swing… the first swing gets you to the second swing in a loaded position… if you started with the second swing than you would load up not back around because your vision would lose you…..
So the lateral tilt or getting the barrel moving rearward is complete control… controlling plane and getting into the hitting position..Because when your in the hitting position you lost all control… just let it go… hulk smash… right.. release!!!
So… we don’t let gravity or anything else control our first swing… maybe you do… but I want full control of the first swing… Hyper focused…I want to feel myself point to the ball…
Once I point… I think ohhh just touch that ball right there… just touch that ball right there… hulk smash…
ITS ALWAYS WHAT WE DO BEFORE THAT IS THE OUTCOME…It’s approach… Well I k le your wrong with the rotation gets you on plane… how did you convince yourself that worked… by the way I know the answer…
The awewer is… I just assumed it…Stop assuming… and as your reading this your thinking… shit I never looked into getting on plane and this stick ball guy is saying something that I never heard before and sounds interesting…
The important part is you never looked into getting on plane… And your hands control it all…
Merry Christmas… Hope all is well…
~DM
Throw a punch with your core.. than point with your lead hand and than use your core and punch with the other hand…
Throw a ball… every hear… your glove hand controls your throw..
We all know this but for some reason when we grab a bat we see something different… but it’s the same your lead hands still connected to your core via its wrist forearm and ELBOW…
It still works the same way even though the orientation may differ…
But unlike throwing… batters tend to just not use there lead arm… They fail to measure or point to there target…
Funny…Thr funny thing is not all stacking is the same… read you later…
~DM…
Joey I just had this thought… it could be nothing but you know how I love 3’s… we have a bat tip (1) a bat on plane (2) and a bat finsh (3)… how bout that…
Also do you want me commented here… you never really answere my question or even let me know if your interested or trading of this… I don’t mean to ramble like this but also if your not interested that’s cool too… probably best if I don’t use your work webcite as my brain storming blog…
~DM
DM,
A little about me. I have been a travel ball coach for the past 30 years. I retired from a factory and started coaching professionally for the first time last year. I took my high school team to the State Tournament for the first time in 17 years, a school I graduated from. My middle son Zac led our team in hitting last year as a sophomore. My oldest son and daughter each played 4 years of college softball and baseball, and I was their travel ball coach. My oldest son went on to coach HS baseball and softball, and began coaching at the college level for softball. Last year he was hitting coach and infield coach for Georgia Tech. He now is head coach for Austin Peay University and well on his way to a very promising career. He and I talk daily on how to teach hitting as well as our philosophy’s. So first of all, lets talk about Separation. I look at hitting in the exact manner as throwing an object. If I told you to get separated with your scapular load and then take your steps toward your target and make a throw, I would bet that you wouldn’t be able to generate much force. In fact it would be a very robotic type of movement and weak. So what do we do? We start in an open position with our chest facing our targets, and as we move toward our target we virtually turn and step sideways and allow our shoulders to rotate closed and as we land, our back elbow gets back, and we load our scap and unwind our body using our core motors. We don’t start in that position, we get their upon landing. The exact same movement applies to hitting. Just as hitting from a slotted position that a lot of people teach with the elbows pointing down and close to the hitters sides. Doesn’t work either. Try throwing from that position and never allowing the scap to load, almost impossible to generate maximum force. Thats why all of the pros get their back elbow up to that loaded position late.
DM, You misunderstood me about rotation getting the hitter on plane. I was referring to the spine angle generated at the launch position or stride landing at toe touch (I want the hitter to land on the ball of his foot with heel about an inch off the ground) just prior to heel strike. I believe their is two different planes the hitter attempts to get on. The first plane is the recognition phase as the hitter is making a positive move in the direction of the pitch. Right out of the hand, the hitter can tell the height of the pitch and here is where he will adjust his spine angle as he lands, for example if the ball were at the knees, his body tilt might be say 40 degrees. If the ball were to be up in the zone, that angle might only be 10 degrees or so. The second plane and probably the most important plane is where the hands go in the load position just prior to going to the baseball. I have noticed this in only high level players, as I have seen in my son that when he recognizes the pitch his hands start to naturally load higher or lower depending on where that pitch is, and not a lot but a noticeable difference. Once we start our rotation, a good spine angle that is maintained will allow the hitter to get his bat on plane early. DM and Joey have a Merry Christmas!
Coach DeLong
rodney.delong@lawtonps.org
MacArthur HS Baseball
DBat Instructor
Coach DeLong,
The progress your son made, in his swing, by thinking hands to the ball is very impressive. I was wondering if you could talk a little more on the 30 inch hand casting your son achieved. I’m not sure I understand that concept. Thank you.
Dave
Good Morning Dave,
One of the adjustments that I made with my sons swing was to move his hands out a little in front of his body in his starting position before he loads. It just created more spacing from his shoulder to his hands. This spacing allowed him more room to get to balls inside. I think people get caught up in focusing on casting and getting around balls with their students. I think when teaching young kids a swing in the beginning, we can get them to control their hands and their barrel and keep their time to impact at a minimum. Thus, teaching them to keep their hands close to their bodies throughout their swings, helps them to be a little more efficient and hit balls to mostly the middle of the field. What really happens is that maximum force is not being created by the hitter, and that it is a push or pull swing that is slow. What really needs to happen as with my son, is to create an uninterrupted hand path. And really, 30 inches of hand cast is just a distance that is created by his load position and his spine angle tilt at his launch position. If his spine angle tilt was say 10 degrees, than his distance from his body would not be as high. From there his hands keep their distance from the back shoulder all the way through connection until they begin working out to the ball. I think what is important here, is that he be consistent with basically the same distance on all of his swings and for Zac, that number stays between 25 and 35 inches. Watch Matt Nokes, “Case Study, Brandon Brown”. Nokes really gets you to thinking about hand path, especially when he says that professional hitters make no effort to get their hands inside the ball. Also watch this youtube video- Take Your Hands to the Frickin’ Ball!! | Baseball Hitting Mechanics (Pro Speed Baseball). Nokes also refers to the pulling the hands inside as creating slack in the barrell such as the example he uses with an Olympian twirling a ball and chain, and at the last moment before releasing, he pulled his hands inside closer to his body. Ultimately, the ball at the end of the chain would lose its rotational force and momentum and slow down.
Rodney… Merry Christmas too…
It’s the holidays and I don’t have much time so I’ll make this brief and contact you once the holiday are over…
I love your resume… It’s impressive!!! I hope you keep on coaching…
There was a lot said and I agree with most of what you teach…
As far as stacking which I previously called coordination and presetting…This is by far most important and most difficult to discuss…
To start I mentioned “short foot”… If I had one tip to give it would be start in this short foot position… Notice not all short foot are equal…When I mean tip.. I mean tip for the entire baseball swing… now great hitters already do this.. Reason being we need to engage our glutes… also if you start in a short foot position you most likely will work your way up..
As far as separation… You said you like starting your hands out in front… Notice this again is a presetting position… Believe it or not you are having a tighter coil, setting your pelvis forward and increasing your separation by doing this… Said another way you are presetting all this so it easily just happens by the batter just LETING it happen…
You pointed out that the sons hands naturally adjust to the ball…I’ll say his instincts are taking over from taking a plurality of swings… And his hard work paid off…
But you don’t need hard work… if you had smart work AND hard work… What I’m saying I can teach or explain that movement…It’s not a natural or a body thing….It can be a body thing but than your out of sequence… Now this all depends on what your thoughts of the sequence of the swing…
So… The first swing… Gets you on plane and in the hitting position to HIT… So not only does it get you on plane it also provides a force against the second swing which helps provides and hold the counter force so release is not only timed right but at the right time and angle…
I have yet to give this simple but apparently non obvious approach… Most likely because most if not ALL people look at the hands as one entity… When like the hips it’s not… For example the hips can be defined by the inner thighs, the feet, the sacrum, the shoulders and/or the hands…As for the hips… if you can use your rear hand to pull your lead hip up during your load you should be good to a certain extent..,
There’s a lot here and we can catch up later….
For stacking… One example… without being to specific think about this… use your back to raise your arms up… start with your arms in a SCAP LOAD position…, Raise your arms up to your sides where your elbow is substantial matching the ground plane…. Than use your back to straighten your arms out by Rotating your forearms out…. That’s a start…. Notice how your arms move…. Bow the hands are where the magic happens…. Happy new year and let me know your thoughts as they are always appreciated… Later…
~DM
At the end… if you can pull your lead hip with your right hand now you can use your lead knee as a point of interest… A trigger to engage your lead hip… If you can use your bottom hand than that’s another trigger for your lead shoulder… And if you can use your rear scap that will trigger your rear elbow….
One swings goes right into the other… The issues are they are triggers … Triggers that would only be understood if we looked at the swing as two swings…but it’s one swing… it’s rotation or linear while the fact is it’s a bunch of rotational and linear forces and more importantly the combination of both at the end….
Who knows perhaps I’m clueless…
Joey???? Do you have any thoughts???? Does it sound like I’m from mars?
At the least looking at the pelvis as a single thing like turning ought to be a NO-NO…
~DM
Coach DeLong,
Thank you for taking the time to explain that concept to me. Your explanation was very helpful and I had my son take a few swings using some of the concepts that have helped your son. I like what I see so far. I’m certain I’ve seen the Matt Nokes video that you recommended, but I will check out the other video from Pro speed baseball as well. Happy New Year to you.
Dave